Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:00:00:
Hi, everyone. On today’s podcast, we’re going to talk with gut health professional Lisa Smith and host of the Pretty Well podcast, all about reducing toxins at home during pregnancy and postpartum. Welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® Podcast. My name is Rebecca Dekker, and I’m a nurse with my PhD and the founder of Evidence Based Birth®. Join me each week as we work together to get evidence-based information into the hands of families and professionals around the world. As a reminder, this information is not medical advice. See ebbirth.com/disclaimer for more details. Hi everyone, and welcome to today’s episode of the Evidence Based Birth® Podcast. I am so excited to welcome our guest today. Lisa Smith is a functional nutrition registered dietitian who applies a whole person approach to wellness. Lisa has discovered from working through her own health challenges that an integrative functional medicine approach is the key to optimal health. Through uncovering the root causes of health concerns, she guides clients in identifying solutions to healing. By pinpointing roadblocks to recovery and guiding clients to restore their body’s inherent healing process, she has helped hundreds of clients find the solutions to feel better for good. Lisa is also helping people on a really broad scale by hosting the Pretty Well podcast, which is focused on people who are struggling with exhaustion, irritable bowel syndrome, inflammation, holistic health, and nutrition. So welcome, Lisa, to the Evidence Based Birth® podcast.
Lisa Smith – 00:01:40:
Thank you for having me, Rebecca. I’ve been really looking forward to talking with you.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:01:45:
I agree. This is a conversation that’s been on my radar for a while, so I’m so excited you’re here. I was wondering if you could start off, you know, by sharing whatever you want to share in terms of introducing us to the topic of reducing toxins in the home or, you know, gut health or anything you’d like to start off with.
Lisa Smith – 00:02:05:
Sure. Well, I’ll start off a little bit with my own journey. I, right after I gave birth to our second kiddo, who is now 18. I started experiencing exhaustion. I had a two-year-old and a newborn, and I thought, well, it’s sleep deprivation. It’s normal. I have a new baby. I’m nursing, all the things. But it didn’t go away. And a year in, Rebecca, I just was worsening. I wasn’t getting any better, no matter how much sleep I got. And after a battery of tests, what they had found was that I had had Hashimoto’s, and it had gone on undiagnosed for pretty much a year because I just kept thinking it was sleep deprivation. So it had really taken a toll on my health. And it got me thinking, well, I’m really healthy, I eat healthily, I live healthily. How could I get that? You know, when we get sick, we start asking why. Why is this happening?
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:03:05:
And for people who don’t know what Hashimoto’s is, can you just tell us what it is?
Lisa Smith – 00:03:09:
Oh, sure. Thank you. Yes. So Hashimoto’s is a thyroid. It’s an autoimmune thyroid disease. And it ends up with your body is attacking your thyroid, which means you end up with low thyroid symptoms, which would be exhaustion. A lot of the things that you would see with sleep deprivation, but then more, it ended up affecting my joints. It ended up affecting so many other things in my life that I started to feel like I couldn’t live a normal life. That’s when I went to the doctor. I am a little slow going to get things like that checked out. So.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:03:45:
Well, I can see how you would be, it’d be confusing when you’re postpartum.
Lisa Smith – 00:03:50:
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:03:51:
Exactly.
Lisa Smith – 00:03:52:
Yeah, right.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:03:52:
Because those symptoms can be attributed to having young kids and a baby and going through the birthing process.
Lisa Smith – 00:04:00:
Exactly. And I had had two C-sections. So again, I had just come off a surgery and even months into it, I thought I was doing really well. And someone came to bring me a meal months late and months after having our second baby. And she literally looked at me and she’s a very nice person. It shocked me what came out of her mouth. She went, oh, you look. Terrible. Like, you look terrible. But I didn’t notice how bad, you know, my face started getting puffy. I got deep, dark circles under my eyes, like really deep. And I didn’t notice it. I thought I was doing pretty well. I’m like, I’m juggling the things. I’m exhausted and I feel like I could sleep all the time. But that was kind of a wake up call for me. Like, maybe something’s not right here. But anyhow, when I started researching, I asked the doctor, why would I get this? And he had a great personality. And he said, well, it’s idiosyncratic, which means we don’t know why. And your doctor’s an idiot. He was making a joke of it. But it turned out that I started doing my own research. And what I found was. You know, there were multiple. Anytime we end up with something chronic, it’s not a one. You know, I’m a functional health specialist and expert. But there’s not a root cause. You know, so many of us in functional medicine say, oh, we’ll get to the root cause. Well, it is the root causes. And one of the root causes in my journey was that I didn’t realize I was loaded with toxins in my environment. So I wasn’t paying any attention to any of my consumer, my consumer product, like my, you know, my like health products, my home products, my cleaning products. I wasn’t paying attention to any of that because I didn’t even know you were supposed to. So fast forward that to now, that is something that is one of my, that would be a part of my wheelhouse is that I help people figure out how do you get these toxins out of your home? And there are so many easy ways to do it. And it’s so important during pre-pregnancy, pregnancy, and after childbirth as well and raising families.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:06:12:
Okay. And is there a link between toxins and gut health at all? Or am I just making, for some reason I have that in my head that that’s a potential link as well.
Lisa Smith – 00:06:23:
There’s a really big link between that. First of all, toxins can contribute to something called leaky gut. And leaky gut is also called intestinal permeability. I did once go to a different doctor and said, I think I have leaky gut. And he laughed at me and said, there is no such thing. Well, he’s not my doctor anymore and he’s not right. Leaky gut and intestinal permeability are when, you know, our gut is supposed to, it’s made of this very thin lining of cells, but they’re supposed to be very tightly packed together. And with leaky gut, those tight junctions begin to develop fissures, if you will, or little gaps. And then what happens is before our food is digested fully. So if you picture your GI tract from your mouth to your butt as one hose, and it’s one solid hose, you went to Lowe’s or Home Depot, bought a new hose, you’re watering your garden at summertime. But say your little next door neighbor came over at night and your little bratty next door neighbor boy, and he started. Putting pinpricks all through your hose, and you came out and watered your garden tomorrow, you would see these springs happening all through your hose. That is a great illustration for leaky gut, because that’s what happens. It’s supposed to be one solid hose, if you will. And what happens is it starts to spring these little leaks. And then particles get into your bloodstream before they’re ready to. Your brain and your body then say, oh, that’s a toxin. Oh, that’s a threat. And they mount an immune response. Now you have inflammation, you have an overreaction to foods, you have all kinds of things going on. So toxins play a key role in leaky gut. But interestingly, and there’s evidence-based research behind this that show toxins like heavy metals will reduce your gut diversity, your microbiome diversity. That is very, very important for our health, for our immunity, for our metabolism, for so many things. So, you know, there’s definitely an association between toxins and gut health.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:08:38:
And then, as you were saying, there’s an association between gut health and overall health, like autoimmune conditions and other issues. And one of the things I’ve found recently in helping family members who are dealing with autoimmune conditions is, at least where I live, there’s a real shortage of medical providers and specialists right now. Like the wait list to get in to see a specialist if you have an initial autoimmune disorder is, you know, months long. Sometimes up to six months long in my area. And so for me personally, that caused me to dive into, well, what can we do in the meantime while we’re waiting for this appointment with a traditional medical specialist? And I had no idea that there’s this entire body of evidence and practitioners who are working on food as medicine and your environment as medicine to help cope with and reduce symptoms and in some cases even treat autoimmune conditions. Is that something you’re seeing as well?
Lisa Smith – 00:09:40:
Yeah. What a great point. And, you know, Rebecca, I’ve seen the same thing that you just mentioned. I’ve seen, regardless of specialist, very long wait times to get in to see physicians. And then often the person isn’t even getting the answers they’re looking for. They may be given a medication to mitigate the symptoms. But they’re not really finding out what are the factors involved with why I developed this problem in the first place. And with autoimmunity, we want to look at environmental toxins. We want to look at food sensitivities. We want to look at gut health. You had mentioned earlier the gut being such a key part of all health. And it is. It’s the foundation of all health. So we want to look at all those different pieces of the puzzle, hormonal imbalance even, to see what is contributing to this person’s health issues and I believe that the body doesn’t make mistakes. When I went to that doctor and he said my Hashimoto’s was idiosyncratic and he said very often this will come post-pregnancy because the body’s been through so much stress. I believe that the body’s doing everything in its power to keep us alive. So that means if it develops a condition, it’s a check engine light. Something’s wrong or multiple things are wrong. That’s why we see over and over again, if someone develops an autoimmune condition, they get another one later and possibly a third one. It’s because, yes, maybe the symptoms have been addressed. Like for my Hashimoto’s, I was given thyroid medications, which I still need because there’s been so much damage to my thyroid but that doesn’t cure why I developed it in the first place, which gives me a much higher risk of developing other autoimmunity in the future unless I figure out what’s going on.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:11:42:
That makes sense. Yeah, so we need conventional medicine for the treatment, for whatever damage our bodies have been through. But then we also can benefit from looking at potential root causes. And when you say it’s important that you’re talking about the multiple causes, it reminds me of when my mother-in-law had Alzheimer’s. I was doing a lot of reading on the research on that. And they described there’s not a single cause, rarely, of Alzheimer’s. They were like, it’s like having a roof over your head and there’s 30 leaks, you know, and some of the leaks are bigger than others, and that’s what the causes are of Alzheimer’s. So you kind of address the biggest leaks in your roof and then move down from there. So what you’re telling me, though, is that toxins in our environment, in our consumer products, and potentially even in foods, could be one of those contributing causes or the leak in our roof, basically.
Lisa Smith – 00:12:40:
They definitely are. And they’re definitely one of the bigger ones. I love that illustration. I’ve heard it before, too. And what they say, just like you said, is you don’t necessarily need to get all 30. But if you get the big ones, you’re going to you’re going to move the needle.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:12:52:
You’ll make a difference. Yeah. And your health. So in terms of people who are. You know, preconception or pregnant or postpartum, raising children. One of the studies I was looking at in preparation for this interview is one from 2004 that found more than 200 industrial chemicals and pollutants in umbilical cord blood. When they were collecting this blood after birth. So I was wondering if you could just like highlight some key findings from this research and talk about how concerns have evolved from then, because that was about 20 years ago.
Lisa Smith – 00:13:26:
Yes. And that was an excellent study. And it was done, it was spearheaded by the Environmental Working Group. And I have, we’re going to talk about that a little bit more in our conversation, the Environmental Working Group. They’re fantastic. What they did, they studied 287 chemicals. And. Of those, they found an average among the umbilical cords tested, and they were across U.S. hospitals, so it wasn’t in just one geographical area. So that gives us a better sampling. And they found an average of 200 chemicals in umbilical cord blood from 10 different babies. And what they found was, this is mind-blowing, 180 of those chemicals are known to cause cancer. 200, over 200 of them are toxic to the brain and the nervous system. And they also found that over 200 of them are related to birth defects or abnormal development. But none, there are no studies, and there couldn’t be because it would be inhumane, but there are no studies that look at the Molotov cocktail of all of those in a person. And for babies, that risk is enormous. Like you said, that was 20 years ago. What would it be now, you know, if it were studied? Can you imagine? With the increase in chemical use even over the past 20 years, what that might look like.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:14:55:
So what are some of the, you know, the major concerns right now? You mentioned heavy metals. Are there any others that are like on the radar of health organizations right now?
Lisa Smith – 00:15:06:
Yes. So heavy metals. So mercury in particular. Mercury in particular is toxic to the brain and the nervous system. It will cause developmental delays. It can cause death. I mean, it can cause all kinds of things. So let’s just start there. That’s in our environment heavily through coal burning plants. But it’s also in seafood. So when we think that we’re eating healthier, depends on the seafood. A lot of it is contaminated heavily with mercury. My favorite thing in the world is tuna. I love tuna fish. I love tuna salad. I love all of it, but it is really high in mercury. The larger the fish, the higher the mercury. So swordfish, mahi-mahi. We could look up a list. Again, the EWG, the Environmental Working Group, has a great list. So mercury is a big one. Lead is a big one of concern, although that wasn’t highlighted in that study. Lead wasn’t. But if you live in an older house, that’s something to be aware of, that it might be in the paint, it might be in the plumbing, that kind of thing. Then some others are called forever chemicals, like PFAS. I would butcher the long word if I tried to say it. It’s some kind of pure flora something-something. But those are forever chemicals, and those are found in so many things. They’re found in plastics, they’re found in food wrappers, they’re found in Teflon, they’re found in Scotchgard. So if you get, you know, furniture that’s stain resistant, clothes that are stain resistant, fire retardants, they are ubiquitous in our environment. And those are scary because they do not break down. They will last for hundreds of years, but they cause damage in the human body. So that’s another big one. And then there are chemicals like pesticides, again, very damaging to the human body. You figure if they’re meant to kill pests, they’re not good for us. And I would say I would highlight those three. Now, again, there were hundreds, so there were many more as well. They found gasoline. They found those kind of petroleum-based chemicals, those kinds of things.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:17:19:
Yeah, which makes sense because in our episode about… Premature rupture of membranes, in particular preterm birth, there’s research about living in proximity to like any kind of petrochemical plant that is processing fossil fuels can increase the risk of your waters breaking prematurely when your baby’s still preterm. Can you talk a little bit about glyphosate?
Lisa Smith – 00:17:45:
I can. So that is the active ingredient in Roundup. It has been, it’s considered a suspected human carcinogen, although Monsanto, the company that developed glyphosate and Roundup, they have paid out millions of dollars in court cases where farmers who’ve developed cancer and they have linked it to Roundup. So, you know, when it’s suspected, I think we can be pretty confident that it is cancer causing. And it causes disruption to DNA. It causes disruption to genetic, turning on and off genetic switches. It’s, it’s, it’s terribly dangerous, but it is all through our food supply. So we need to be really aware of that. Whether pre-pregnancy, pregnant, you know, postpartum, raising kids or beyond, it’s really important that we are buying foods that we know are not doused with Roundup.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:18:52:
Okay. So speaking of, you know, foods and that line, what are some simple changes that expectant parents can make if they want to significantly lower toxin levels where they’re living?
Lisa Smith – 00:19:08:
I’m so glad you asked because I was just thinking I left that question short. I need to talk to you about how do people do that? Because if someone told me. 20 years ago, you need to buy foods without Roundup. I would say, how do I even do that? What are you talking about? So there are labels on foods now that will say not genetically modified. So genetically modified foods, let me take a step backward. I’m going to talk about food and other products as well. But genetically modified foods are often modified so that, the farmers can use a pesticide like Roundup, like douse the crops with Roundup, and the crops won’t die, but everything around them will die. And that allows them to grow bigger, heartier crops with a much higher yield, which helps profitability. That was the selling point of Roundup. So when we look at things like genetically modified soy, almost all the soy in our country is genetically modified. So if you’re eating soy for health, you’ve got to make sure it’s organic. If it’s not organic, you’re eating concentrated glyphosate, which is going to be very disruptive to your health. Soy, oats. Oats, there was a study that came out. The EWG shared it where they looked at oats all throughout our country, even down to things like Cheerios. Really important for new parents to know this. Cheerios are off the charts in glyphosate. So you don’t want to buy Cheerios. Go buy the organic version of Cheerios, you know, Cascadian Farm or store brand or whatever. But any kind of oats are off the charts unless they’re organic.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:20:57:
So it’s not necessarily the genetic modification that’s the problem. It’s because they were genetically modified, that is a signal that then they used lots of chemicals growing the crops.
Lisa Smith – 00:21:10:
Correct. Now, the genetic modification itself could be problematic. That is like even a whole different subject.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:21:17:
Okay, that’s a different subject.
Lisa Smith – 00:21:19:
Okay. Right, because what they’re doing is they’re using genetic material. It’s not, hybridization is not a problem. That’s where you take two of the like kind, right? So you take two different kinds of tomato, you make a new tomato, it makes a better tomato. That’s great. But when you’re taking a tomato and say genes from a fish or something else and adding that, now we’ve really changed the genetic makeup and we’re not quite sure. Or, you know, a lot of scientists will say, oh, there’s no problem whatsoever. But who knows that? Truly, so, but to your point. The actual allowing it to be covered with Roundup is a problem. If we look at corn, corn is called Bt corn, most of it in our country. That has in the corn, it has, they’ve put something in the seed. So when the corn grows and the pest goes to eat the corn, it causes the pest’s digestive system to explode. So that genetic modification isn’t a problem with the pesticide. That’s the corn itself. That’s a problem. So I always say, because, you know, the other side of the corn, corn, corn, the other side of the corn, pun unintended, will, they will say, well, that you can’t extrapolate that those results in pests to people. Well, no, you can’t. But if something’s made to explode something’s digestive system, I don’t want it in mine. I don’t want it in my kids. So if you want corn, I suggest you get organic corn, you know, corn, soy, oats, and chickpeas are some really, some really big crops that are, that are GMO. So. Back to your question about that. So that is one way to reduce toxins is to find organic versions. Now, if you get non-GMO, because there are a lot of non-GMO labels, that doesn’t mean it’s not sprayed with pesticides. That just means it’s not genetically modified, but they’re still getting sprayed with pesticides. So that’s why organic is the safest route. Now, is it perfect? I’ve had lots of people say to me, well, organic isn’t perfect. It’s not perfect. There is no perfect, but it’s better. And if you’re feeding your kids. Or you when you’re carrying a baby, you want better. Some other ways to reduce toxins.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:23:38:
Okay.
Lisa Smith – 00:23:38:
Easy, simple ways. The biggest, some of the, what I have found in my journey is some of the biggest toxins in our homes are things like candles, synthetic candles. Air fresheners, laundry detergent that’s heavily scented, Fabric softeners. Sprays, perfumes, anything that has a heavy scent, those tend to have those forever chemicals in them.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:24:04:
Okay. Well, that makes sense because every time I’m at the mall and I walk by one of those candle stores, like both me and my kids are hypersensitive to scents. And I’m always like, get me away from there.
Lisa Smith – 00:24:14:
I’m the same way.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:24:15:
You know, and maybe that’s a really good instinct that my body has. It is. You know, riding in a car with a strong air freshener, I cannot stand it. But I guess it’s a sign that if you can smell it that intensely, you’re, you’re breathing something in. Right.
Lisa Smith – 00:24:30:
Yeah, no, you have a good body, right? You have a good body that’s trying to protect you. Yeah, anytime. That all started with me when I was pregnant. I would walk by those candle stores and I’d be like, oh. You know, and then now, you know, it’s just very, they’re very, very toxic.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:24:48:
So avoiding some of those like unnecessary scented products, something simple and cheap, like using those wool balls to help dry instead of like dryer sheets. Is that an example of a cheap?
Lisa Smith – 00:25:02:
That’s an excellent example. And I like to sometimes. When we come from heavily scented products, especially when you’re used to your laundry smelling a certain way, but keep in mind, if you can smell someone’s clothes on them, that is really, really bad for their health. Really bad. It always makes me sad if I’m around little kids and I can smell the fabric softener on their clothes. I’m like, oh, that’s so bad for all of your body systems. But you can use those wool dryer balls and put some essential oils on them. You won’t get the heavy scent. Another thing, plug to Trader Joe’s, they have these little lavender sachets that you throw in the dryer. They’re really nice. And then they make your laundry smell like lavender. It’s very faint, but it’s super nice. The thing you have to be careful of is they break down before you know it and you have lavender all through your dryer, that happened to me two days ago, but it’s okay. Everything smells good.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:26:02:
What other ideas do you have for lowering toxins while you’re pregnant or raising children?
Lisa Smith – 00:26:07:
Other household things. So cleansers. Make sure the cleansers you buy are clean and again, not heavily scented. Some of my favorite brands are Biokleen. Well, let me start with laundry detergent. I like brands called Molly Suds, Biokleen, Zum, Z-U-M, those are all natural. They do a great job. Same with dish detergent and dishwashing soap. Biokleen’s always a good bet. Just become a label reader. And the best way to do your homework is to go to EWG Skin Deep. EWG stands for Environmental Working Group. They do all this research. The stuff that I’m talking about, they do all this research on consumer products and how to buy the safest products from your toothpaste to your deodorant to your moisturizer to your laundry detergent, all of the things. So I really like EWG. It’s ewg.org. Some other ideas. You want to look at where the main places we’re getting toxins. We’re getting them in our food, our air, and our water. So I like an air filter called Air Doctor. I have them in my kids, all three. I have them in all of our bedrooms. I like water filters.Â
My favorite is Berkey. Berkey is a big, tall, silver water filter. We tend to get a false sense of security when our refrigerator filters our water, but it really doesn’t do a very good job. It really doesn’t. So what I do is I literally use my filtered fridge water and I pour that in my Berkey. You don’t have to. I’m just a little over the top. You know, you could just use your tap water. Berkey is amazing. It’ll filter everything out. So those are some really simple ways. Check out your air, your water, your food, and then the things you buy, like don’t buy. Don’t buy kids clothes with flame retardants, you know, pajamas with flame retardants. I don’t, buy cotton, you know, just don’t burn candles in the house. Be careful. But buy natural fibers. Synthetic fibers have lots of chemicals that our skin absorbs. So buy natural cotton, wool, linen, you know, silk. Those all natural fibers are, first of all, they feel better on the skin. So if anyone has sensory issues, they feel a lot better. Secondly, they’re a lot cleaner and safer. Oh, just anything, it is in clothing, but anything that you see that’s stain resistant, that’s going to have Scotchgard, like a Scotchgard type of a thing on it. That’s going to be a forever chemical. So you want to avoid those as well. Now, be careful in all the things I’m talking about. Be careful of greenwashing. There are these companies… I don’t know if I should call them out. I think I will, just so you know. Seventh generation, Mrs. Meyer’s, they’re all sold in the health food sections of stores. They tend to not be as clean as they market themselves to be. So that’s called greenwashing. Greenwashing is, hey, we’re really a clean product. Buy us. And they’re marketed really well. But when you look at the ingredients, they tend to have ingredients in them that you’re trying to avoid. So just be aware of greenwashing.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:29:33:
Okay, that’s really good advice. I’m going to say, if you’re planning on buying something, like, I guess. Give your money, make your purchases from companies that are doing the work. And I love the website you mentioned, the ewg.org/skindeep. And it looks like they review products ranging from makeup to nails to hair, babies and kids.
Lisa Smith – 00:29:58:
Yes.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:29:58:
Sunscreen. So, I mean, thinking about things like diapers, baby shampoo. Stuff like that it’s like sometimes I just I guess we need just a greater awareness and I know it’s impossible to fix everything so I think thanks for your advice about the big things like filtering water and air if possible staying away from strong scents that are warning signs of chemicals and then being careful of the foods you eat. And if you can’t be careful with every food you eat, then I would imagine it would be most important to focus on the foods you eat most often.
Lisa Smith – 00:30:36:
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:30:37:
Does that sound like good advice? Okay.
Lisa Smith – 00:30:39:
That’s great advice. And here’s another little tidbit of advice that makes it so much easier because we can’t do it perfectly and you can drive yourself crazy trying to. So please don’t hear that I’m saying do all these things all at once. It will drive you bananas. I tried it. It’s way too much. It’s overwhelming. So do what you can. Every step is important. So if you do two steps, that’s better than no steps. Do two of the biggest impact in your own home. Easy to get rid of candles, easy to get rid of plug-in air fresheners and spray. That’s easy stuff, right? And we can replace those with more natural things over time. It’s not like you have to give them up completely, but easy to get rid of now. Air and water, really important. If you were going to only buy one air filter, air purifier, I would put it in my kid’s room because toxin per body size, it’s far more concentrated in a little body than in our big bodies. And those toxins, they have a lot longer to do damage in someone who’s young than someone who’s older, right? If we’re exposed now, we’re way farther down the road than our kids. So if I could only buy one, I would put it in my kid’s room. I would say those are the main things. And just take, you had mentioned about food, like would you focus on the food you eat the most? I would. But there’s also, EWG every year puts out something called the Dirty Dozen and Clean Fifteen. The Dirty Dozen tells you which, what produce is most heavily steeped, if you will, in pesticides that you can’t wash off. It’s systemic. So those Dirty Dozen, when you buy them, you should always be buying those organic. And then the Clean Fifteen, they’re saying, you know what, those aren’t as important. So things like avocados, things with a peel that you take off, a rind or an outside covering you take off, they’re safer. So I like that because it makes it more doable. And then it is expensive to, it is way more expensive to live this way. So buy what’s in season, buy what’s on sale. And in places like Aldi’s and some of the, some, you know, some discount grocery stores, they do have a really good Trader Joe’s, just they have a great selection and you don’t have to break the bank, but just focus on things that, you know, that you can do now.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:33:07:
That makes sense. And then also maybe individualizing it to your health. Like if you know you have a specific condition and a specific chemical, like we had a family member with an autoimmune disease and we realized that, what was causing it wasn’t necessarily, or a contributor wasn’t necessarily gluten per se, but it was the fact that this person was eating like six slices a day of processed bread, which then, you know, we were looking at the levels of certain things in that bread and we realized, oh, if we just switch to like bakery bread or homemade bread products instead of this processed bread, it will make a difference. And it really did. So I thought I thought that was kind of an interesting like sometimes you just have to pinpoint what are the things that are most impacting them and then like plug those big holes in the leaky roof.
Lisa Smith – 00:34:03:
You bring up such a good point. So in practice, when I have clients come in and they say, you know, I really always react to bread or pasta or dairy cheese or whatever. But I don’t know. I don’t really think I have a sensitivity. You, so many times there’s this little thing in the back of your mind that says, I don’t know, maybe if you have a hunch like that, just get rid of it for a month and see what happens. Just a month. Try it. It’s an experiment. And so.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:34:37:
Yeah, that’s basically what we did. And it changed the lab results.
Lisa Smith – 00:34:41:
That’s amazing. That is-
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:34:42:
So after one month.
Lisa Smith – 00:34:44:
It made so much sense. So you think about that process bread. There’s, because it’s wheat. So get this, the way we ripen wheat in this country is after it’s harvested, it’s cut, they spray it with Roundup. No lie. Just stop the ripening process. So that’s not getting washed off. That’s all through that bread. In addition, usually bread is often bromated, meaning they use bromide. Well, bromide on the chemistry chart is a halogen and it competes for iodine in your body and your thyroid needs iodine. So things like bromide, chloride and fluoride will all compete for iodine, which means if we have an abundance of those things in our body from what we eat, what we breathe, what we drink. Then we will you know, we’re hurting our thyroid essentially. So along the same lines.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:35:37:
Yeah, that’s what I was learning about. It was a big part of it was that processing, the conditioning, they called it, to keep that bread that kind of unnaturally soft in the inside and fluffy. And I was like, oh, you know, all of a sudden all these connections are being made in my head. So I love, you know, the focus on nutrition and those simple changes that you can make switching what type of bread you eat if you don’t give it up completely. Or like you said, doing a trial run, like if you have a hunch. If something’s bothering you, stop eating it. Or find a suitable replacement. And see how you feel a month later.
Lisa Smith – 00:36:14:
I really appreciate that you just thought maybe it’s the processing. And now that person doesn’t have to go without bread. Right? They just don’t eat that kind of bread.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:36:28:
And I tell you where I got that idea from that it might be something in the bread. Well, first of all, I was like, well, what are you eating all day? You know, I was asking this person. But recently I had been learning that in the European Union, a lot of those countries, people who eat gluten free in the U.S., can eat bread products in those countries with less impact. You know, obviously not if you have an allergy to gluten, but if you’re just sensitive. And then I was reading about how, you know, first of all, they grow different types of wheat that have less gluten. But then also, you know, they have all of these traditional bakeries where everybody just either bakes their own bread or buys it from the baker. And it’s not being processed in these huge facilities. And I thought that was interesting.
Lisa Smith – 00:37:12:
Yes. I’ve heard it over and over again. People saying, well, when I was in Italy, when I was in France, I did fine with bread and pasta, but I can’t have it here. Isn’t that interesting?
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:37:22:
Right, right. So are there any final pieces of advice you have for our listeners who are pregnant or planning on having children or advising people who are pregnant?
Lisa Smith – 00:37:35:
Yeah, well, you know, I do. So first of all, we’ve talked at length about toxins and reducing those and easy ways to do those. Just get the low-hanging fruit out first. Just start with that. There’s a book I read way back when, when I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s called Supernatural Home. That is a fantastic reference for how to slowly start to get those things out. Now, don’t do what I do and go crazy and say, we got to get a new mattress and new furniture. And don’t do that. Just take a piece at a time and take it, you know, be gentle with yourself. Secondly, you know, there are just some good things. It’s interesting that… That gut health, you asked me that question earlier, because we do make when our gut health is off, you know, you asked about the impact of toxins on gut health. But interestingly, when our gut health is off, we produce our own toxins called endotoxins, and those can affect us as well. So focusing on gut health, and that would be, I like to do the three R’s. What do we need to remove? What do we need to replace? What do we need to do to restore? So an example of that is if you do feel like you might have a sensitivity to foods, some foods, any food, like you and I had said, give something up for a month and just see. I’m not, I’m a dietitian by trade, so I don’t, you know, I’m not advocating wiping out whole food groups. But if there’s something that you really think, ah, every time I eat that, you know, my, I get an itchy lip, or I get bloated, or my… I have bowel irregularity, whatever, then just knock it out for a month and see what happens. That’s a good example of what to remove. And we’ve talked about removing toxins. What do we replace? We replace things that are just… You know, just some basic things like prebiotics, probiotics. And you can do that through your food. You can do it through supplements or you can do it through your food. So probiotic foods are things like, you know, those cultured foods like sauerkraut, kimchi, kombucha, kefir, those kinds of things.Â
Yogurt, but yogurt tends to either be high in sugar or high in artificial sweeteners, and you don’t want either of those. So just improving gut health with the three R’s, remove, replace, and then restore. If there’s anything you need to dial in specifically, you know, for your health, those who are listening and you and me, it could be balancing blood sugar, it could be hormonal balancing, those kinds of things. So the three R’s for gut health. And then the other thing I wanted to mention is, and, you know, we’ve talked a lot about changes you can make, but that could induce a lot of stress. Stress has a very large impact. It is kind of like a toxin when it’s too high for too long, you know, and so stress is related to inflammation. It’s related to leaky gut as well. It’s related to hormonal unbalancing and metabolism issues because it throws your insulin off. So all the things we’ve talked about can lead to stress. And that’s the final point I want to touch on while we’re talking today is that stress in itself is kind of, kind of has a response in our body or our body responds to it kind of like a toxin. So when we have too much stress, there’s good stress and bad stress, but when it’s too long and it’s chronic, it leads to inflammation. It leads to hormonal imbalances and metabolic dysfunction. So it throws off our insulin. It throws off our estrogen. It throws off our sleep. It throws off our cortisol, right? So, so really important. We’ve talked about a lot of very hands-on things today that you can get rid of or add to, but this one’s a little bit, a little bit harder to track down. But, but addressing stress levels, we can’t, we can’t change necessarily what comes at us. So we do have to bring some tools in the toolbox that help us to balance that and to manage that better. So that stress doesn’t continue to have those effects on our body that are detrimental.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:41:41:
Yeah, thank you, Lisa, for that reminder. And I just want to ask everyone to take a deep breath in with me. And breathe out. And we can take baby steps. You don’t have to fix it all at once. One thing at a time. And thank you, Lisa, so much for sharing your expertise. I want to encourage people to check out the Pretty Well Podcast, and there it goes into a lot more depth about a wide range of health concerns. And also, we have EBB 308. We had Dr. Tanya Khemet Taiwo come talk about environmental justice and midwifery care and how midwives can address environmental toxins, for pregnant families. So if you’re interested in learning more about toxins, I suggest that podcast. And we’ll also put links to the resources you mentioned, Lisa, in the show notes here. What’s the best way for people to follow you in your work?
Lisa Smith – 00:42:40:
I shared with you that I am in the middle of a move. I am relocating to a whole new state. I’m in South Carolina now. So the best way I’ve… The old way is no longer possible because I sold my private practice, which is exciting. But the best way is through Pretty Well. So to message me either on Instagram, prettywell_podcast, or that’s actually that is the best way to reach me.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:43:07:
Okay. Well, congratulations on your move. And thank you so much again for sharing all your expertise with us today.
Lisa Smith – 00:43:13:
Thank you. Thanks for having me. It’s been a pleasure.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker – 00:43:17:
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