Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Hi, everyone. On today’s podcast, we’re going to talk with Melissa and Brendon Smyles about their birth experience involving water or hydrotherapy and fentanyl. Welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® Podcast. My name is Rebecca Dekker and I’m a nurse with my PhD and the founder of Evidence Based Birth®. Join me each week as we work together to get evidence based information into the hands of families and professionals around the world. As a reminder, this information is not medical advice. See ebbirth.com/disclaimer for more details.
Did you know that here at Evidence Based Birth® we have an instructor program where you can apply to teach official EBB classes to parents and pros? Here at EBB we only open applications for the instructor program once per year and this year applications are opening on May 30 through June 28. We also have a live Q&A next week on May 30th where you can get all of your questions answered about the program. So if you’ve ever wished you could teach an EBB childbirth class, such as the one featured in today’s birth story, then this is your chance to sign up for a live Q&A about the program and learn more. Just go to ebbirth.com/instructor and sign up for the Q&A today. And now, let’s turn to today’s episode.
Hi everyone, and welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® Podcast. My name is Rebecca Dekker pronouns she/her, and I’ll be your host for today’s episode. Today, I’m so excited to welcome some graduates of our Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth class, and that is Melissa and Brendon Smyles. Melissa, pronouns she/her, and Brendon pronouns he/him, have been married since 2022 and had their son, Emmett, in July of 2023. They recently moved to Georgia with their son and two dogs to be closer to family, where Melissa is a physician associate at Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta, and Brendon is a stay-at-home dad. They took the Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth class together with their instructor and doula, Alycia Cullen. Welcome, Melissa and Brendon to the Evidence Based Birth® podcast.
Melissa Smyles
We’re excited to be here.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Yeah, it’s so great having you two here to share your birth story. I have to admit, it kind of piqued my interest in that you used a range of comfort measures and pain management tools during your birth. So I was hoping you’ll share more info about that as we get further into the interview. But I was wondering if you could start off by telling us how you found out about Evidence Based Birth®, how you got connected with Alycia?
Melissa Smyles
So one of my good friends had a baby right before I got pregnant. And so I asked her about her experience. And she told me both about the Evidence Based Birth® podcast, which being in medicine, I was really looking for some more critical thinking about birth instead of just the common what people believe, I wanted some good hard evidence. And then she was the one who had used Alycia as her doula, and recommended her. And so, we reached out to her and actually ended up simultaneously finding her along with one of our other good friends who had their baby a little bit after us. So we kind of have a few friends that have used her and she’s just really incredible. And she actually got her Evidence Based I guess, certification and started teaching the class. We were part of her first class. That was really a treat to be able to have her both as our instructor and as our doula.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
And Brendon what were your thoughts about hiring a doula?
Brendon Smyles
You know, I was pretty open going into it. We weren’t decided right off the bat that that’s what we wanted to do necessarily. But after talking about it a little bit, I was really kind of excited by the prospect of it. Have somebody there to kind of help and support and guide as we walk through something that was totally new to us. But to her, she’s seen it happen a few times.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Yeah. So I can see how being in healthcare, Melissa, that, you know, was a bit of a, you know, it’s nice to find a class that you feel is based on the evidence and also that you and your partner can get educated at the same time. Where were you living then at the time you were having your baby?
Brendon Smyles
We were in the north side of Atlanta, still in Georgia, in sort of the Chamblee area.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Okay, so you were in the Atlanta area, metro area for this birth. Okay. And what was your experience like taking the class with Alycia? Were there other families in there? And tell me a little bit about what you learned.
Melissa Smyles
There were, I think, five other couples.
Brendon Smyles
Five couples.
Melissa Smyles
And, you know, sort of in different stages of our pregnancies. So it was kind of fun to go through and sort of be in different stages. So when we learned some of the comfort measures and pressure points, there were certain people that were ready to use those and other ones of us that were not recommended to do that. So it was kind of a good range. We really enjoyed it. The hands-on classes and both the online part, I thought it was a really good mix of both of those things.
Brendon Smyles
I think going into it, we oftentimes said we don’t know what we don’t know. We didn’t even know what questions to ask or where to begin. So it was nice to have sort of that, abundance of information to just sort of shotgun method. Anything that you might have blanks or be curious about and then also have that in-person hands-on with Alycia where she was able to say like here are practices that you can do here’s an applicable thing that will help here’s something that you can you know tangibly do so I really liked it.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Yeah, you bring up a good point about you don’t know what you don’t know the first time. What are some examples of some things that fell into that category where you learned it from Alycia or from the class, and you were like, wow, I had no idea that that was the thing I needed to know?
Brendon Smyles
For me, counter-pressures was a big one. I hadn’t even known that that was a thing prior to getting pregnant. So that was something that was really cool and tangible that I could latch on to. And I felt like I was contributing in some way. And then I think another one that we had talked a lot about that kind of piqued my interest was the spinning babies thing. I thought that that was really cool and interesting. And I had never heard about that before.
Melissa Smyles
I didn’t have to really use that, but good to know just in case.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Good to know, like be aware of the positioning of your baby.
Brendon Smyles
Yeah.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah. I think one of my favorite parts that I knew that we needed information on, but I didn’t know exactly what we needed or how to get it. Obviously being in healthcare, I feel very comfortable in a doctor’s office. I’m able to take control of the situation, know what questions need to be asked. As far as risks and benefits and things like that, but was very aware that in birth in labor, I will probably not be able to do that. And so I really wanted Brendon to be able to have some tools to ask some of those questions of the healthcare providers, but again, didn’t know exactly what questions and how to kind of help him with that. I think that was a really great part of it was you just learning what you could do to help support me. And when I wasn’t able to really express things for myself, you could either express my wants or desires or, you know, ask me of those more challenging questions to healthcare professionals.
Brendon Smyles
Yeah, I think one of the best roles that Alycia played for us, she wore many hats, obviously, but one of the best things that she did for us was both be an advocate and teach us how to advocate for ourselves when it comes to things like, you know, shortly after birth, you know, Vivian was lying on Melissa’s chest and they came over and wanted to take him and take weight and do all the different things. And Alycia kind of came over to me and put her hand on my shoulder and said, don’t let them take that baby. And I said, no. So that was great.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
So she kind of cued you and reminded you like you can speak up here.
Brendon Smyles
Exactly. Like this is a decision that you get to make. It’s not something that they’re telling.
Melissa Smyles
I was obviously pretty out of it at the moment. So I was like, sure, I guess if that’s what you need to do, which, you know, honestly, if I had remembered my training, would have known to speak up for myself. But I think I was just so exhausted and out of it that I was really grateful for, again, the, you know, education that we had and then the, you know, in-person support to say, yeah, you can advocate for yourself.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
It’s especially helpful when one of you is a healthcare professional and the other isn’t. Because then it gives you a bit, both of you, the tools to speak up rather than just having to rely on one person who might be incapacitated at the time.
Melissa Smyles
And communicate with each other because it gave us a better language to speak on things with medical terms versus, you know, not being able to communicate about some things or not with specificity, so.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Yeah. So I know you’re mentioning the birth, but let’s rewind a little bit and take us to the end of your pregnancy. At that point, what kind of birth were you planning and what was your mindset like?
Melissa Smyles
Yeah. So I think throughout pregnancy, our goal was to have as unmedicated of a birth as safely as possible. I was really interested in water birth. So in Georgia and in Atlanta specifically, we don’t really have a lot of options for that. So I’d actually started with a practice that employed midwives, but was at a hospital that did not have water birth. I considered doing the Atlanta Birth Center, but they had recently changed their hospital affiliation and I wasn’t really comfortable with that at the time. So we ended up with really the only other hospital in the Atlanta area that allows for water birth. So that was still kind of the goal, but I wasn’t sure that I’d be able to accomplish that. And so what we were preparing for, was a lot of comfort measures so that I could try to go as un-medicated as possible. But again, as safely as possible for myself and baby.
Brendon Smyles
The entire time we had kind of said was as natural as possible for as long as possible and when it gets to the point where that’s no longer possible that’s totally fine with whatever we do.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Okay, so you’re kind of keeping an open mind in terms of you knew all of your options and you would just kind of play it by ear in terms of what you needed. So did the hospital you’re planning to birth at, they had tubs in all of the rooms or some of the rooms? What was the?
Brendon Smyles
It was an inflatable pool actually that they brought in and set it up for us and then ran a hose from the shower in the room into the pool. It took a little while to fill up and whatnot, but it was upon request to limitation.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah, I think they only have about four of those, so it could be in any room. But if they were all occupied, obviously couldn’t use it. But I was fortunate enough to be able to have that as an option.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Okay. So take us to, you know, the day or the night labor began. How did your birth story begin? Yeah.
Melissa Smyles
So I had kind of out of the movies, a premature rupture of membranes. Brendon was at work. He was working at a restaurant at the time and it was about 8 p.m. and I was sitting on the couch trying to finish up some work. And just all of a sudden was like, I need to stand up. I stood up and my water broke on the floor and I was not having a single contraction. So I swiffered it up and I sent my out of office email and did all the things that you do and, you know, texted Brendon and saying, no rush, but… my water just broke. No contractions, so take your time. So contractions finally started around like 10 p.m., you’d gotten home around that time. He had to go rescue our dog because the stress of me going into labor made her jump the fence. So I’m home, he’s driving around the neighborhood looking for our 80-pound black lab. Found her, came home. I think the timing was pretty fortuitous because I was able to sleep in between contractions. We had talked to our doula, and she had said, best you can, try to get some rest. You don’t know how long you’re going to be in the game form, so I was able to sleep through contractions a good bit and would wake up and then go back to sleep. And I guess about 4-ish a.m., I woke up and was like, I can’t sleep anymore. So I got in the shower a little bit. We had a birth ball that we had gotten on recommendation of the class and practiced using in the class. And so I was in the living room, I’m trying to do some mobility stuff on the birth ball using my little timer with contractions. I think you probably woke up around 6 a.m.
Brendon Smyles
Yeah, I just woke up a little earlier than that. We left for the hospital around 6, but generally.
Melissa Smyles
But he woke up and looked at my contraction timer on the phone and said, we need to go. And I was like, no, I don’t feel our doula and instructor had kind of told us, wait till you’re in labor land. So you’re probably checked out. I was still able to have full-on conversations. I said, I don’t know. I don’t know that we’re ready yet.
Brendon Smyles
Going into it we had the opposite fear most first-time parents is that we were going to show up too early and that they were going to laugh at us and tell us to go home or worse you know admit us and the timer would start ticking sooner than we wanted it to or needed to so we were definitely erring on the side of being a little late, end of things but we got there, I think just right in good timing, we got to check into the hospital around eight.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah I, I did enter labor-land in the car so she had he had the right timing. So we’re on the way and, I could not answer his questions anymore or text our doula back, so I was like okay this is right time. We probably got there not late, I think they said I was about six, six or seven centimeters dilated.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Wow.
Melissa Smyles
So I think sleeping through some of that early labor was really, really good for me. So we got checked in and got in the room and I tried the shower a little bit first and then had to cut-off the shower to fill the tub. And I labored in the tub for about two hours.
Brendon Smyles
No, we were in there a little longer than that.
Melissa Smyles
But he was in with me, which was doing counter pressure and support measures.
Brendon Smyles
It was-
Melissa Smyles
Really a super intimate time.
Brendon Smyles
It was. It was really sweet to be able to do that. And very… hands-on and was able to kind of be a part of it a little bit more We labored together in the tub for, I think, probably closer to about three or four hours before he started to slow and progress started to kind of stall a little bit.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
And was your doula there during this time?
Brendon Smyles
She was.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah.
Brendon Smyles
She had come from a birth the previous night.
Melissa Smyles
Yes.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Okay.
Melissa Smyles
Yes. So she got there a little bit after we checked in. She had gone home and gotten a little bit of sleep while I was sleeping through contractions. Luckily, we both got a little rest. But she showed up, you know, in the morning when we had gotten checked in.
Brendon Smyles
She hung her lights and put up the curtains and made everything just right and soothing as opposed to kind of the sterile hospital environment.
Melissa Smyles
I had wanted to minimize my cervical checks, just especially with the pre rupture or premature rupture of membranes. And at that point, after being in the tub for so long and really not feeling like there was a lot happening, I requested one. And so we got out and I was not fully dilated yet, which was pretty discouraging to me because, so I guess I’d been in labor at that point, 8 p.m. to, you know noon 1-2 p.m.
Brendon Smyles
Yeah, so. you’re pushing up against 16-18 hours probably.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah, so I was definitely a little bit discouraged and baby was starting to have some some decelerations on the monitor so they were like, let’s keep you out here and just monitor. And, um, so I had to wait to get get back in the water, and ultimately never went back in the water. So I did not end up having, um, a water birth just labored a little bit in the water. So I was a little bit discouraged about that at first, um, and then you know our doula kind of recommended, I think you need to get some rest I think you need to relax a little bit she was really coaching me through some breathing I had been doing pretty good up to that point and that point I just was really starting to hold my breath, and so she was like we need to do something to make you relax. So you know the water had helped but then it slowed me down enough to where we had to get out and so we’re like, all right let’s find some other things to help me relax. So it was a lot of a lot of counter pressure changing positions using the birth ball I was you know on the bed I was on the floor and ultimately, um, you know, I said, I can’t do it this way for much longer. And we had learned when you say I can’t do it anymore, that’s typically when you’re about to do it. So I was like, I can’t do it this way for much longer. So what are other options? And our midwife is really incredible. You know, good, she said, you’re pretty close. You’re not quite a 10, but you’re pretty close. So, you know, we can wait it out a little bit longer. We can do an epidural. We can do some fentanyl. The hospital did not have nitrous oxide as an option, unfortunately, but she was like, so here’s some of the different things. And so I opted for fentanyl, which she said, you know, you can’t get back in the water. But it might give you some medicated rest. You know, you’ll still feel, you know, you won’t take away the pain. You’ll still feel things, but it may at least let you get some rest. And so I ended up, you know, taking an interrupted nap, waking up for contractions. Of course, he was able to get a little bit of rest and sleep while the doula took over.
Brendon Smyles
She was a lifesaver. She came in with a sandwich handed it to me and said, you haven’t eaten anything in a day. Eat that and go to sleep. I’ll take over for a little while.
Melissa Smyles
You know, she was taken over with the counter pressure and about 45 minutes in, which they, you know, wait an hour to check you again. And I was like, I’m going to need to push. I’m going to need to go to the bathroom. And she was like, we are going to ask for forgiveness and not permission. So let’s go to the bathroom really quick. And waddled back to the bed. And so by the time that the midwife came in, I was really ready to push at that, you know, hour after I’d gotten the fentanyl mark and was, you know, at 10, fully effaced. And I think that… I wasn’t against using any medication or any support, but I think, like we said, we wanted to go as natural as possible. And so I definitely feel like it was a tool and there was part of me that felt a little bit disappointed that I wasn’t able to be in the water, that I did use a medication. And I think I just was able to reframe it even in the moment and say, this is the thing that’s helping me get my baby here. And I really, you know, the rest was, I think the thing that pushed me over the edge. And I think I probably would have had a much more challenging time or maybe even had, you know, failure to progress if we didn’t do it. So I think it was a huge, huge benefit.
Brendon Smyles
No, I agree. I think if it hadn’t been for that little bit of rest that she was able to get from the fentanyl that we probably wouldn’t have been able to deliver naturally or as smoothly at least as we were. And I definitely credit that to be part of the thing that helped us ultimately get what we wanted from it.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah. And then pushed for about an hour, hour and a half.
Brendon Smyles
Yeah. You were in the squatted position mostly at that point. You used the bar over the bed, which was incredible. I credit that to your gym.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah.
Brendon Smyles
At Acumen. But she stayed in a squatted position to push for a long time, which I think really helped with just the kinesthetics of getting him out. And then right up to the point of crowning and then ultimately delivered on your back.
Melissa Smyles
On my side.
Brendon Smyles
On your side, that’s right.
Melissa Smyles
And Brandon caught Emmett, our son, which I remember the midwife was like, all right, go ahead and get your gloves on. And he said, do I need them? She was like, I guess not. It’s your baby. And, so just barehanded caught our son. And we did not find out the gender prior to the birth. So, you know, he run and brought Emmett up to my chest and said, you know, we have a son and then we had to decide on the name. And it was super exciting and emotional. And, um, you know, I think. Definitely a lot of the, you know, the measures that we, that we went through and, um, really helped. I did not really have a lot of tearing. I did have some bleeding afterwards and had to do some fundal massage, which surprisingly was the most painful part of birth, which is crazy. Um, but that was pretty surprising to me. And then, and then we have him.
Brendon Smyles
Yeah, I think from start to finish, it was about 20 to 21 hours from the time of the water broke until the time he was delivered. So kind of right in that expected and good time-frame and everything went more or less according to plan.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
It’s really interesting to me, Melissa, how you made the most progress the fastest when you were either sleeping, you know, on your own and then kind of resting and dozing after the fentanyl.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Did you feel like, what was it about the act of completely relaxing that helped your labor progress?
Melissa Smyles
I think part of it probably is, you know, even though I knew the breath work to help relax my body a little bit when I was awake. I, obviously, it’s challenging when you’re a leader, but I also tend to be a pretty type A control freak person. And so trying to, you know, control it and you can’t control birth. And I knew that going in, but I also knew that that was going to be a challenge for me to not try to control the situation and just to let it happen and let those waves come. I just think that that was something that was personally a little bit more challenging for me, even though we prepared so much for it. I can’t even imagine if we hadn’t, hadn’t have done as much education as we did. Sure, it would have been much harder, but I think having that forced relaxation on me just kind of took me out of the equation, which was what he needed to come into the world.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
That makes sense. And Brendon you know, I’m so happy to hear you caught Emmett. Can you tell us a little bit, like, were you hoping to do that? Was that on your birth plan? Had you talked with the midwife in advance or was it more of a spur of the moment decision?
Brendon Smyles
No, I mean, I, um, I had actively taken a point to be as involved in the process as I possibly could be right from the very beginning. And that was important to me. And I knew it was important to Melissa. So whether that was counter-pressures and massages early on, or whether that was slow on getting in there and getting him out and whatever we need to do, I definitely made a point to be as active in that as possible.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah, we had it written in specifically to the birth plan, if possible. And, you know, even our, you know, potential, you know, C-section plan if needed, which we didn’t need. But part of that was still, you know. Direct hands-on, you know, father getting to be a part of that so we definitely wrote in very specifically, um, that we wanted him to be a part of it but the, the midwife we’d actually never met before. There are two practices that sort of alternated, so we pulled the midwives throughout all of our prenatal visits, but it ended up being somebody different that was there that day. But we had it all written all over plan and she was really really wonderful with, um, you know, with listening to our wishes and helping us accomplish those.
Brendon Smyles
She was great.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
What did it feel like then to catch your baby as he was coming out?
Brendon Smyles
I don’t even know if words are adequate. I mean, it was just like this overwhelming deep sense of joy that I’m not sure, I had ever really experienced before of just like, like we did this. This is ours and we did this and it’s incredible.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
And Melissa, when he handed you your baby?
Melissa Smyles
Well, at first I think I was like, is labor over? I’m so tired. I think he had a more emotional response right off the bat. And it took me a minute to kind of come out of, out of that labor land and back to earth. And that’s when it really hit me. But, you know, it’s pretty amazing. The hormones start to flush. And I went from not really being able to, you know, speak to anybody to, being my, my shabby self in just a minute and you know it was really incredible to have that um to have that skin on skin time with him and like Brendon said when the nurse came up you know well meaning of course but wanting to get some vitals, we actually ended up getting a little bit more than an hour when he said-
Brendon Smyles
Yeah that golden hour lasted closer to about an hour and 20 so. That was pretty incredible.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
I mean, the golden hour should be like a minimum, not a maximum, you know, I think. And I can see the temptation to get those things documented, but you’re, you know, it’s best to keep you together if you can.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah.
Brendon Smyles
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Really happy to hear that you were able to advocate for keeping him, you know, skin to skin with you. And then you mentioned the bleeding postpartum. Did that happen right away or was that a little bit later?
Melissa Smyles
Yeah, it was, it was pretty much right when he came out. So I think that also made it a little bit challenging. So, you know, Emmet’s on my chest and I’m sort of having some of that bleeding and they’re like, great. So don’t freak out, do you want to do? And I said, give me the Pitocin. Whatever will keep me here, you know, with my son and not have to have an emergency. And, um, you know, I think I had a fear of having some postpartum bleeding just because I’d had friends that had like really significant hemorrhages and have to go to surgery. And so my thought was whatever we have to do to make that not happen is fine with me. And I didn’t even lose enough to need like a transfusion. So it ended up being fine.
Brendon Smyles
Which again, an incredible credit to our midwife that was there. I mean, we were having our little family moment, three of us cuddling, he was feeding for the first time. And I looked down and I realized like, there’s a situation happening here that we’re not aware of. And I was able to kind of say like, hey, what, what are we doing here? What’s happening? What do we need to do to make sure that we stay safe? They were on top of it and knew exactly how to handle it. Take care of your business.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Yeah. It’s the power of a wonderful care provider. They monitor for when things aren’t normal and they can take action and know what to do. And you mentioned the fundal massage. So I just wanted to let our listeners know we do have an episode about that. That’s EBB 267, where we have an amazing labor and delivery nurse, Barbie Christianson, RN, come in and talk about that and kind of debunk some myths about, talk about when it’s not needed and when it is needed. And then also, while I’m mentioning other episodes, the week before your episode is airing, we cover the evidence on injectable opioids for pain management during labor. So that’s episode 312. And I just wanted to kind of point out that some of the benefits of having that as an option for pain relief during labor, most people don’t realize that it’s more universally available. It’s very easy to access. Quick to deliver than an epidural and it’s less invasive than an epidural. So there are some drawbacks in terms of potential side effects, but it’s a good alternative if you need something, a medication for pain relief, but you prefer to avoid an epidural if possible. So it’s something you can try and it sounds like it made a positive impact on your experience.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
And it was just a one-time injection through your IV then?
Melissa Smyles
Yep.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Okay. Yeah. And in episode 312, we talk a little bit more about how it can be delivered through like a pump as well, a patient controlled pump. So there’s other options as well. But Melissa, can you talk a little bit about postpartum? You know, we’ve gone over the birth story, but what was your postpartum experience like?
Melissa Smyles
Yeah, I think overall I had a great postpartum experience both in and out of the hospital. So, Emmett was born around 5-ish p.m. And so we were really trying to, stay the amount of time that they needed us for his testing and then get home so we could, um, you know kind of relax so we were able to get out the door that next night so we only had one night in the hospital. Which I think was really good for both of our mental spaces, I think we we really wanted to get home. And you know, I think a lot of people want to be in the hospital, for you know two nights if possible to have a little bit more rest, but we really felt like we would rest better at home. So, we just had the one night there and had, you know, great care while we were at the hospital but were really looking forward to getting home. And, um, I think we had such a great tribe around us where we both have older siblings with multiple children. We have a lot of friends that have kids that are a couple of years older than our baby. And so we had a lot of people who sort of been through this before that came and visited and, you know, helped with things and were not a burden and just genuinely came to help support us. And then, you know, physically, my recovery was, I think it was better than it could have been. I tend to push myself a little bit too much. I think that’s why Brendon laughing.
Brendon Smyles
She went back to the gym two weeks after.
Melissa Smyles
And then I stopped again.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
What did you realize, Melissa, when you went back to the gym too early? How did your body tell you that it wasn’t time?
Melissa Smyles
So, you know, I had been working out up until the day I was literally in the gym two hours before my water broke. You know, lifted weights. The whole pregnancy ran for about 26 weeks until running became too challenging. But I really used that to, you know, help prepare for labor. And then also just working out really helps my mental clarity. And so I was really itching to get back in the gym postpartum and very much knew that I had to go easy on my body, but was hoping that I could, you know, even do some lightweight things. I had gone to pelvic floor physical therapy prenatally. So my pelvic therapist, who is incredible, Angelica, The Pelvis Pro, she gave me some exercises for directly postpartum. And I did all those. And I was like, alright, I’m gonna do some more. And I ended up having a little bit of increase in bleeding. And so I was like, all right, I was pretty much done bleeding. And then that started again. And I was like, all right, I need to take a little bit more of a break without having, you know, a tear or any stitches. I thought, hey, maybe I can go back a little bit earlier than the recommended 6 weeks. And, then I was humbled, which was a good thing for me. But yeah, but I think overall, you know, I was able to get back to at least some mobility stuff. And so that was really helpful. And I think, you know, I was very afraid of, you know, postpartum anxiety and depression and or maybe not afraid, just I was wary of it. And, you know, so I think us being prepared, having a lot of friends and family around us and kind of having that support team in place. Um, luckily, I did not really have many of those symptoms. There were obviously some challenging days, but our support system around us, I think, really made a huge world of difference.
Brendon Smyles
I think also just to keep in mind that like we’re not quite clear of the window that that happens. You know, we have friends that they didn’t have any issues with any postpartum depression until, you know, nine months to a year in. And so being diligent about, you know, checking in and making sure that we’re mentally healthy is always important.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Yeah, it’s important for people to remember to keep an eye on that, look out on it for it in the first year for sure. And then Melissa, it’s interesting what you mentioned about the bleeding because it didn’t make sense until I finally really understood the physiology of birth and postpartum. But the fact, you know, there’s a placent-ish size wound in your uterus, that’s, it’s not that your muscles are weak or you’re a weak person. It’s like literally there’s a dinner plate size wound inside your body that has to heal. And if you do too much too fast, your bleeding will increase and the healing will reverse, you know? So I think it’s a good reminder for people listening.
Melissa Smyles
Absolutely, which I think I knew that, but I didn’t want to believe it for me. I was like, well, I can be the exception to the rule. So like they say, doctors are the worst patients. So I think being in medicine, I was like, that’s true for everybody else, but not for me. So it was a good lesson for me to learn. And thankfully I didn’t have, you know, serious repercussions. I had a little bit of increase in bleedings and symptoms, and I was able to pull back and recover from that and obviously had amazing support from my husband. And so I was able to do pretty well.
Brendon Smyles
I think ultimately though you did a really good job listening to your body and finding those lines for yourself within safe ranges.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Yeah. Listening to your body and being really in tune with it. And it sounds like both of you are in tune with your mental and physical health. So that’s-
Brendon Smyles
Try to be.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
It’s a work in progress.
Melissa Smyles
Yes.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
I love that you mentioned the pelvic floor physical therapist, because I feel like in the United States, it’s pretty rare for people to talk openly about it or even have one or know what they are. So I’ll make sure I’ll link to your pelvic floor therapist, ThePelvisPro.com in the show notes for people who are in the Atlanta area. I think it’s really important for us to pass on when you meet a great pelvic floor therapist because we need to spread the word. In other countries, it’s just a normal part of healthcare. Everybody gets pelvic floor therapy. In pregnancy and postpartum and in the U.S., we treat it like it’s some exception.
Brendon Smyles
Well, we even got sort of strange looks from family members and stuff that were like, “Oh, you don’t need that,” but also had kids and probably would have benefited from pelvic floor PT.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Probably, yeah.
Melissa Smyles
Signs of pelvic dysfunction. And so, like, I don’t want to have that. And I want to be healthy and we do physical therapy for… you know, other sorts of injuries. And like you mentioned, like it’s a placentasized injury after birth. And then not to mention all the pressure that baby puts on your pelvic floor throughout the birth, it’s not just the actual birth like fully rebirth process. So, um, I really you know, I really enjoyed it and really learned a lot from it. And was helpful not only to help with symptoms during pregnancy and postpartum, but also just to help me learn more about my body and, we obviously practiced a lot of labor positions being in the EBB Birth Class, um, but then we also did some of that in pelvic therapy. My last session he came with me and we practiced some of those things again.
Brendon Smyles
Some of the massage and how to help prep for labor and all that, so it was great, I mean she’s fantastic.
Melissa Smyles
So, kind of got this similar information from like multiple touch points, which also made me feel better about it to know. There are these amazing, really wonderful, educated, smart people coming from different areas of my life that don’t even necessarily get their information from the same source but they’re all saying similar things. Okay, this is something that I think we can trust.
Brendon Smyles
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Yeah. And other things you did, you know, to protect and prevent perineal trauma, like the side-lying position is a great way, especially if you’re tired to give birth. And we talk about that in the evidence on birthing position. So it sounds like you two just had a lot of education and a lot of tools and it’s, it’s really cool to, you know, that you had a positive birth experience. Are there any final words of wisdom or advice for anybody listening who’s planning on entering birth or parenthood soon?
Brendon Smyles
Just go with the flow because you’re never going to have it figured out.
Melissa Smyles
I think arm yourself with, with information and make sure that you have a supportive partner that you take along for the ride. I think a lot of people will educate, you know, birthing persons will educate themselves and not necessarily bring their partner into it. So definitely do it as a team.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Yeah, I love it. It’s also great because it’s like you have all the information, but then you also know that you can release and let go too. So it’s like, it’s like not one or the other. It’s both.
Melissa Smyles
Yeah.
Brendon Smyles
Definitely.
Melissa Smyles
Absolutely.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
Well, thank you, Brendon and Melissa, so much for sharing your lovely birth story with us. We appreciated hearing from you.
Brendon Smyles
Yeah, absolutely.
Melissa Smyles
Thank you.
Dr. Rebecca Dekker
This podcast episode was brought to you by the Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth Class. This is Rebecca speaking. When I walked into the hospital to have my first baby, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Since then, I’ve met countless parents who felt that they too were unprepared for the birth process and navigating the healthcare system. The next time I had a baby, I learned that in order to have the most empowering birth possible, I needed to learn the evidence on childbirth practices. We are now offering the Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth Class totally online. In your class, you will work with an instructor who will skillfully mentor you and your partner in Evidence Based care, comfort measures, and advocacy so that you can both embrace your birth and parenting experiences with courage and confidence. Get empowered with an interactive online childbirth class you and your partner will love. Visit evidencebasedbirth.com/childbirthclass to find your class now.
